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> Zenonov Paradoks, (ne)moguće

Puzzler
post Aug 15 2006, 03:52 PM
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Za one koji nisu čuli, objasniću uprošćeno...
Recimo da strelac ispali strelu koja će putovati 100 m. Ali da bi ona prešla tih 100 m, ona prvo mora preći 50 m, pa zatim 25 m, zatim 12,5 m, zatim 6,25, 3,125 itd.
Sve u svemu, pošto se ovo smanjivanje može ponoviti beskonačno puta, zaključak je da ona nikada neće preći tih 100 m, iako mi iz iskustva znamo da hoće!
Razmislite, pa mi recite šta bi moglo biti rešenje ovog paradoksa, a više pročitajte ovde .


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Legenda
post Aug 15 2006, 04:01 PM
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Jelenaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! laugh.gif
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Puzzler
post Aug 15 2006, 04:07 PM
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Hm, da li se Jelenaaaaaaaaa uopšte vratila iz Rusije? laugh.gif


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^_NiN0_^
post Aug 15 2006, 07:42 PM
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Puzzler mi smo telepatski povezani, definitivno! Ja sam upravo hteo da postavim temu Paradoksi.

Pa fizicki gledano nijedno telo nije tacka! Znaci ima dimenzije, ma bile i zanemarljivo male !


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Puzzler
post Aug 15 2006, 08:53 PM
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Nije mi jasno kako to dokazuje Zenonov paradoks... Pojasni malo wink.gif


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^_NiN0_^
post Aug 16 2006, 12:30 AM
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Pogresno sam procitao tvoj prvi post! Tacnije nisam ga ni procitao , unsure.gif
E da postoji ona matematicka formula za to ... pa valjda je to na sta si ti mislio biggrin.gif


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Puzzler
post Aug 16 2006, 10:22 AM
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Da, zapravo je reč o formuli za sumu geometrijskog niza koja se dokazuje na sledeći način.
Ukoliko je prvi član geometrijskog niza a_1, sledeći će biti a_1q, pa zatim a_1q^2, pa a_1q^3 itd. Njihova suma će biti
S = a_1+a_1q+a_1q^2+...+a_1q^n = a_1(1-q^n)/(1-q)
Kada je q manje od 1, a niz beskonačan tj. n -> {\infty}, kao u primeru koji sam dao, sa strelom, gde je q =0.5, a n -> {\infty}, tu q^n -> 0, pa S -> a_1/(1-q) .
Ako ubacimo brojeve iz primera u formulu (a_1 - prvi član, q - koeficijent), dobijamo
S = 50 m /(1-0.5)
S = 100 m
Uklapa se, zar ne?

Ili recimo trougao Sierpinskog koji smo već pomenuli u temi "Gabrijelova horna"...

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Isto se može primeniti formula za geometrijski niz! Prvo je prekrivena 1/4 površine, zatim 3/16, zatim 9/64, zatim 27/128... Uočavate obrazac? Kada to ubacimo u formulu, dobijamo
S = (1/4)/(1-(3/4))
S = (1/4)/(1/4)
S = 1

Dakle, posle beskonačno koraka, cela površina trougla će biti prekrivena, iako mi iz iskustva znamo da neće... Čudna je nauka ova matematika, a bogami, i ovo je izuzetno dugačak post laugh.gif

This post has been edited by Puzzler: Aug 16 2006, 01:56 PM


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zugi
post Aug 16 2006, 04:11 PM
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QUOTE(Puzzler @ Aug 16 2006, 10:22 AM)
Dakle, posle beskonačno koraka,
*



i

QUOTE(Puzzler @ Aug 16 2006, 10:22 AM)
mi iz iskustva znamo da neće...
*



razmisli opet tongue.gif

This post has been edited by zugi: Aug 16 2006, 06:33 PM
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Legenda
post Aug 16 2006, 05:47 PM
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Cudna je nauka matematika,cudna je skola matematicka...
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^_NiN0_^
post Aug 16 2006, 06:39 PM
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Creeps ... blink.gif Spooky


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post Aug 16 2006, 07:08 PM
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E,ljudi da izadjete da malo odigrate koji fudbal. laugh.gif
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^_NiN0_^
post Aug 16 2006, 07:18 PM
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QUOTE(Dex @ Aug 16 2006, 07:08 PM)
E,ljudi da izadjete da malo odigrate koji fudbal.  laugh.gif
*



Razmisli sta si napisao..."koji fudbal"
Ja sam upravo bio na trcanju tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif


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post Aug 17 2006, 11:26 AM
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E,pa to je lepo,Ljubo.Zdravo telo - zdrav duh.
"Uzivaj jer to je vazno"(said by Vlado Dimic).
Ja sam upravo zavrsio strip "Prva vrulja" laugh.gif
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Puzzler
post Aug 17 2006, 09:38 PM
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QUOTE(zugi @ Aug 16 2006, 05:11 PM)
razmisli opet  tongue.gif
*




Hmmm...U čemu je fora? Nije mi jasno!
BTW Za iskustvo... kada prekriješ 1/4 jednakostraničnog trougla, ostanu one 3/4, tako da nikad nije skroz prekriven!


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zugi
post Aug 17 2006, 10:15 PM
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QUOTE(Puzzler @ Aug 17 2006, 09:38 PM)
Hmmm...U čemu je fora? Nije mi jasno!
BTW Za iskustvo... kada prekriješ 1/4 jednakostraničnog trougla, ostanu one 3/4, tako da nikad nije skroz prekriven!
*




ne znam ja kakvo iskustvo ti imas posle \infty koraka. smile.gif

p.s. apstraktna matematike nije intuitivna rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by zugi: Aug 17 2006, 10:24 PM
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Puzzler
post Aug 17 2006, 10:16 PM
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OK, hvaaaaala laugh.gif


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milija
post Aug 19 2006, 08:54 AM
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Mens sana in corpore sano wink.gif

Davno sam citao o Zenonovom paradoksu, a vidim da su poceli da ga primenjuju u logicke pitalice, recimo macka i mis.

Ali to je svrha svakog paradoksa, da nam protivureci.


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Eli0t
post Aug 22 2006, 07:15 PM
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post Aug 22 2006, 07:16 PM
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O tome mozes da diskutujes sa Bozinim ljudima "sa one strane prave"... biggrin.gif
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Eli0t
post Aug 22 2006, 07:17 PM
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Mislis na flekicu i ostale? biggrin.gif
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